Chasing riches is an enemy of gratitude and a catalyst for discontentment

Show Transcripts:

Intro: Welcome to the Father on Purpose podcast, featuring author and ministry leader, Kent Evans, and business executive and military veteran, Lawson Brown. This is a show for you, dad. You want to be a godly and intentional father. Unfortunately, you’ve turned to these two knuckleheads for help. Let us know how that works out for you. Before we begin, remember this, you are not a father on accident, so go be a father on purpose. Please welcome your hosts, Kent and Lawson.

Kent: Lawson, how are you, my friend? 

Lawson: Hello, Kent. Good to see you, dude. 

Kent: This week we’re going to talk about enemies of gratitude, and we’re going to do that for four weeks in a row, and the reason is if you were listening to last week’s show, and by the way, if you weren’t, where have you been, man? We just celebrated our one year Father on Purpose podcast anniversary, and you weren’t there to celebrate with us. So go back and listen to episode 52. That was last week. We talked about reasons that you and I are grateful in particular for the show and things the show has taught us through, just the production of it and talking about these concepts for a year straight now. 

After we got off of the recording, Lawson and I started talking about how much we enjoyed the topic of gratitude and how much it seems to be missing in our culture, missing in our homes, and we thought to ourselves, “Man, selves, wonder if we should do a little mini series on the topic of gratitude.” 

On last week’s call, we kicked around four enemies of gratitude that seemed to be man-focused or dad-focused. These are things that in a lot of our homes and a lot of the dads we talked to, they would say one or all of these four things could really steal their contentment.

Lawson: Yeah. I’ve wondered, do men have more of an issue with this than women? Is there any data that supports we guys struggle with either gratitude in general or expressing gratitude more than our wives do struggle with it? 

Kent: It’s funny. I’ll share with you a brief anecdote, which by the way, that’s not to be confused with the word antidote, which some people confuse those words, but they do not at all mean the same thing, an anecdote. Years ago, I was with a pastor who has spoken a lot not just in his own church, but he’s traveled a lot and spoken, and he said to me, he goes, “Man, if you’re going to be in the fatherhood business, you’re going to have to be pretty content with a very low amount of positive feedback.” 

I said, “Really?” and I said, “Why do you say that?” 

He goes, “If I speak in front of 100 women, at the end of my talk, 35 of them line up to tell me what a great job I did and pat me on the back and pray with me.” He goes, “If I speak in front of 100 men, it’s like cockroaches when the lights come on. They just scatter. Soon as I’m done, nobody talks.” He goes, “So you’re just going to have to get pretty comfortable with a low level of feedback.” 

Now, I’m not saying that means most guys are ungrateful, but we don’t get near as much feedback that’s positive in nature as a typical women’s ministry. So maybe men do struggle more with this or at least they struggle more with expressing it. Let’s put it that way.

Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. It doesn’t mean necessarily that guys are less grateful, but talking about it openly, recognizing it frequently, digging in deeper, and that’s how I felt that the end of the last conversation that we had was was I bet you there are guys out there that this will ring true with. I think we can talk through some of this that’ll hit the mark. There have been plenty of times in my life where you just blow right by because we’re busy and moving fast, and then somebody says something and I go, “Oh, wow. Yeah, I’ve just been in this speed. I’ve been in fifth gear rolling down the road. I just have missed all these things that I’ve got.” 

There’s an exercise. I think it’s based in a scripture that talks about listing, literally listing the things to be thankful for in our lives. I have started those lists before. I get on this kick. I’m like, “You know what? Every day, every day,” and you just never … Shame on me. It never ever sticks.

Kent: Well, I’m just going to write down on my list today, I’m grateful that Lawson has tried hundreds of times to be grateful even though he doesn’t seem to be able to do it. The four enemies we’re going to cover are these. They are money and, again, not that all the stuff is necessarily evil, but these tend to be the thieves of our gratitude. These are the enemies of our gratitude. One is money. The second is comparison. The third is entitlement, and the fourth is selfishness. 

I’d like to share, Lawson, as we get kicked off a general verse on this topic of gratitude, and it’s from the book of Philippians. Paul was writing Philippians 4:11. He says, “Not that I’m speaking of being in need for I’ve learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me.”

We’ve seen that verse quoted a lot, “I can do all things through him who strengthens me.” Lawson, it’s on the T-shirts for the weight lifters and they, “I can lift 800 pounds because Jesus is with me.” Well, maybe it is if you lifted 750 last week, maybe, but if you didn’t, he may not be able to save you from that. I do find it interesting that this verse we often use as an accomplishment verse or do something verse is really connected if you look at the context to this idea of contentment. Isn’t that interesting? 

Lawson: Yeah. So forget about you and me on this podcast. This is the close of what we all need to be thinking about, and that is that he, Paul ties this back, and Paul was not in very good circumstances, by the way. As he went on the road, he encountered plenty of struggles. He had very little and then the end of his life was pretty traumatic, let’s just say, but he’s saying, “I can in any and every circumstance face plenty, face hunger, have abundance or have need, and know how to abound in that and be content in any of those situations.” 

That’s what I feel like I wonder do we struggle with a lot and try to come up with things to be grateful for and ways to do that when that’s the answer. We don’t need tricks and lists and things like that. I mean, yeah, it may help to remind ourselves, but it all comes back to, “I can do all the things with Christ because that’s where my strength comes from.”

Kent: Yeah, and we all know this inherently, but sometimes we just forget it that if we put something in the center of our life that’s not meant to be there, whether that’s money, sex, drugs, rock and roll, whatever it is that we put in the center of our life and it becomes the thing that we orbit around, that’s just a recipe for discontentment and a lack of gratitude and often big time destruction. 

What Paul is telling us is, look, the secret. I love that idea of secret, by the way, because I’m in the content business, and so we always think about headlines that’ll get you to open the email or headlines that will get you to donate. We’re always looking at studies of those kind of things, and those secret headlines are always really powerful. It’s like free, now, hurry. That kind of language causes people to open emails, so does the word secret, right? 

Paul says, “Man, I’ve learned the secret,” and then turns out it’s not actually a secret. It’s not actually this big secret and he goes, “I can do all things to him and strengthen me.”

Lawson: That’s true. Yeah. That’s super true. 

Kent: “I get my strength from Jesus.” So where I get off track as a dad and as a husband is when I get my strength from April or when I get my strength from being a dad of five boys or I get my strength from their accomplishments or on the topic of today’s episode, I get my strength from my bank account, right? 

Lawson: Yeah. Dude, I want to be content so bad. Think of those times in your life where you’re just resting in thankfulness and you can look around and go, “God, thank you, Lord. I’m so happy and so thankful for this,” or this time or this family or this job or whatever it may be. It’s just so easy to be happy and good for other people versus the opposite of that, which is what we’re talking about, the enemy of gratitude. Chasing riches can just, ugh, it’s just awful. It’s horrible when you’re caught up in that.

Kent: I met a guy recently, Lawson. We did a Zoom call. He lives out in California and he’s a former tech executive, made tons of money, right? Big, big, big money. He’s in his mid 60s and he’s been retired for five or six years from the official job, but of course, now he’s on boards and does other things, but he said something so interesting to me that I think directly relates to money. 

He goes, “Man, Kent, you know what? When I was in my career, when I was in my 30s and 40s, I was a shark,” and he’s a good guy. He wasn’t saying he was evil or he is out to get people, but he said, “I went around prowling for the next thing. I was chasing opportunity. I was chasing advancement. I was chasing more influence. I was chasing and I was the predator and I was going to go get what I needed.” He goes, “Now, I’m more of a trout.” He goes, “I just open my mouth and see what flows in.” 

What he was talking about is just the idea that instead of being always carpe diem, always chasing, always up before dawn, and you’re either the lion or the antelope, man, you got to make it happen. I think of those success stories pictures. Instead of living life that way, he started later in life to live more of a, “Let’s see what God gives me each day and let’s see what God puts in my hand this day, whether that’s people, economics, opportunity, whatever.” 

I was really impressed by that statement. So I’m in my early 50s. I’m going to try to go ahead and be a trout starting now and not wait till I’m in my mid 60s because it seems like a much kinder, gentler way to live.

Lawson: Yeah. That’s interesting. Good for him. That’s not easy to do, especially … I want to hone in a little bit on why is it so hard. We have a lot of listeners that aren’t necessarily living here in America where having is a little easier than in some countries. For those of you guys who have spent time outside of our country and some of the second or third world places, it’s a stark contrast. So just starting at that point, which is really remember back, Kent, that was one of the things that I wanted to talk about was our country and being thankful for the fact that for some reason we were born in a country, had nothing to do with that, but God placed us here, and it’s quite frankly much easier to have nice things in America than it is in a lot of places.

That is in itself part of the problem is that it can come easy and if we can have an abundance, we can live, our lives can be free of need. I know there are a lot of guys that are like, “Hang on, bro.” That is not me. We are struggling right now, and I’ve been there, too, but I’m saying in general, our nation is one that the opportunity is a plenty. 

So just like the Bible says, money itself is not a bad thing. In fact, I think there are evidence of money, there are riches that are not necessarily the currency itself, but it equates. So I want to talk about that for just a second, and that is that these things, whether it’s items like nice cars, expensive collectors items, maybe you have a super nice expensive watch that you just love or it could be, just thinking out loud, extravagant excursions and going to some five-star, all-star place. 

When you could get the same family time, the same relaxation, same enjoyment or rejuvenation time with your wife at a non-name brand destination, right? So that’s not currency itself, but then those things, those are inanimate objects. They’re not good or bad. They don’t care about you. So your feeling toward them is not reciprocated in the slightest. Why do you care so much about them? Why? 

So I’ve asked myself in talking with other guys over my life who have also struggled with this to a degree like I have, and Murphy Building said something early to me long, long time ago about gripping tightly the treasures of this earth as if they are ours and that white, knuckled death grip we have on things and/or the fear of losing money, losing those things, bro, it’s not yours. Losing your grip and you will find that you aren’t owning them when you grip that tight, they’re owning you.

Kent: Hey, dad. Sometimes you need weekly encouragement on your father journey. That’s why we built a community of men that are basically the Navy Seals of godly fatherhood. They are all located at fatheronpurpose.org. That’s fatheronpurpose.org. Now, that is a monthly subscription of just 11 measly US dollars, and when you join that community, you will get action items that are brief and biblical, and you can put into play right away. Every week, we release a dad mission video that is a short Divo based on the Bible with an action item mission at the end, super practical. Plus, as a bonus, when you dive in, you get digital courses, eBooks, all kinds of other resources, not to mention you’re connected with dozens of other godly dads who are walking through the same issues you’re walking through, and that community is very rich and vibrant. Come check it out today at fatheronpurpose.org. That’s fatheronpurpose.org.

I remember back in the ’08-’09 recession, I came home at one point and I told my wife, April, I said, “Hey, by the way, you’re welcome for not marrying a super rich billionaire.” She looked at me all weird like, “What is he doing?” 

I said, “If I’d been really rich the last few months, we’d lost a lot of money. We’d lost a lot of money, but thankfully, since I’m not, we really haven’t. It’s fine. It’s okay.” 

We were dialing in today, and at the moment we’re recording this, the NASDAQ and the S&P and the Dow Jones are way off on the day. So there’s billions of dollars of net loss.

Lawson: Yeah. People are losing their brain right now. 

Kent: Guaranteed, over a 2% market move. Let me share two verses, Lawson, and let’s make sure we keep this conversation focused on the biblical view of money, not so much the world’s view of money because that’s really where we get in trouble. One is Hebrews 13:5, and it says, “Keep your life free from the love of money, keep your life free from the love of money and be content with what you have for he has said, ‘I will never leave you or forsake you.'” 

I’m going to come back to that one in just a second, but real quick, rounding them out in case somebody wants to write them both down, the second one is 1 Timothy 6:10, 1 Timothy 6:10, “For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.” 

We see, of course, in both these verses, money isn’t the evil problem. It is our posture toward the money. It is that we love it and that we have loved something that is not supposed to be loved. I find it really interesting in the Hebrews 13:5 verse, “Keep your life free from the love of money and be content with what you have,” and notice the very next part. It says, “For he has said, ‘I’ll always give you what you need and you’ll have plenty to pay the rent.'” That’s not what he says. It doesn’t even say that the antidote, sorry, I know we were going to try not to use that word too often today, he doesn’t even say that the counterbalance to loving money is you’re going to have enough and you’ll be fine. 

He says, “I will never leave you or forsake you.” God says, Look, I am the antidote to your love of money, that the fact that you have put it at the center of your life instead of me.” So in some ways, go back to that one verse, it’s not some big secret, right? We got to get money out of the center of our thinking and the center of our universe. That’s part of what it says in Hebrews 13:5. 

Then it’s echoed, really, in 1 Timothy 6:10, “For the love of money is the root,” and it’s through this craving, that word craving, man, craving. What an interesting word, right? When I think of craving, I think of White Castle. I guess it’s because they won the marketing war, right? What you crave? Maybe that’s regional. I guess guys around the country don’t really get that. I understand. I understand. What do those two verses make you think of, Lawson?

Lawson: Craving jumped out at me as well and it’s getting back to if the love of money is the root of all evil, let’s run that back, right? The root of evil is the craving love of money, the covet love where you want it so bad, you wish other people didn’t have it so that you could crave money, and I think back to the times where that has infected me in a way where when you’re not there and you look back you’re like, “Wow, it was almost like I was sick. I just didn’t feel good. Nothing was ever right. I was always craving the next bonus or craving another job that someone else got that I didn’t because I knew they were going to have a bigger title and more money and whatever.” 

It’s consuming and it does feel evil like that is not right. It is not walking in the light. So I’m asking for myself and anyone listening is let’s be mindful of that, and if it can be the root of evil, then trace some of those dead limbs back to their root and see how and why are we chasing this money, why are we craving it so bad that it’s leading to turmoil, and divorce, and ruin, and consuming the happiness and replacing that with this fog of always wanting more. That’s an awful place to live. Let go of that. Let go of your craving for that.

Kent: I know we’re going to talk about this some toward the end, but you reminded me of a story. One of the ways to overcome this love of money is to hold it very loosely like you’re describing and to give. I remember years ago I had a friend who played a major league sports. He was a standout baseball player, went into the professional ranks, and had a really good dozen 13-year career at the top of the game, right? Made lot of money.

At one point, he called me and goes, “Hey, man. I want you in April to go to a game anywhere you want to go. Pick your favorite city and you guys go.” 

I was like, “Okay.” 

So we pick a nice sunny destination and we go to a nice sunny place, and he hosted us at the same hotel as the team was staying in. We had the chocolate fondue for breakfast. It was absolutely fantastic. Free tickets, free car rental, free plane, free hotel, the whole bit. At one point I said to him, I said, “Man, Paul, you don’t have to do this.”

His response to me was classic. He goes, “Yeah, I know. That’s what makes it so fun.” 

I just thought, and I mean, granted, okay, when you’re making seven million bucks a year, a couple grand on a free hotel doesn’t quite hit the bank account, but my point was here’s a guy who found a way to take his influence and his time and his money and just bless people. I know a dozen stories just like mine connected to that same guy, right? He just gave it away, man, gave it away.

Lawson: So check me on this. Sorry. So Matthew 6:19, it starts there, but the synopsis of it is, and I feel like this is what Paul got, and what the Paul you just mentioned, the baseball guy, and also-

Kent: They’re both named Paul. 

Lawson: Right. 

Kent: Coincidence?

Lawson: Ooh, I wonder. Probably not. Matthew 6:19 says, the synopsis is, “Don’t lay up treasures on earth, lay up treasures in heaven.” That’s what he did for you. He wasn’t trying to wow you with his riches. He was trying to bless you, and in turn that lays up treasures for himself in heaven that says you can’t serve two things at the same time. You can’t serve God and serve money. So serve God. Then the last one is first seek God’s kingdom, and so when we’re talking about antidotes or counter ballots, if we’re just going to wear that word out-

Kent: I just thought a better word. I mean, sorry. 

Lawson: Yeah. I think giving, if you’re trying to think of ways that you can release yourself from this craving of money and you’re consumed with this wanting more and more and more money, give some away, give gift anonymously even so that you’re not getting credit for having given a gift or just tip the living daylights out of some server that you can tell is working hard and needs it and do it in a way where you’re not there to get the big hug and the thank you. Do it as you’re walking out and they won’t see you again. Let that gift be just between you and God, and then tithe, donate. Give to the point where you’re like, “I’ve been worried about money and now giving makes me even more worried,” but just trust God, trust God. That’s what he’s wanting you to do, and you will be blessed by the fact that God’s going to show up in ways that you wouldn’t have been able to see otherwise because you were so focused on holding tightly to the riches that he wants you to bless others with. 

Then the last thing I’ll say, and check me on this, is go through a period. See how much you can do without. See just how little we actually need. See how long you can go without spending money or checking your bank account and checking it in a way where you want to see that it’s growing or see that you aren’t putting yourself out there at risk or something. I’m not trying to say be dumb about leaving your bank accounts alone. I’m saying resist the urge and instead rely on God. Trust, trust that. 

You mentioned ’08-’09. When 9/11 hit, I lost my job. We lost almost everything, even the house. Sold all the cars, paying bills, and couldn’t find a job. Didn’t know where the next paycheck was going to come from, but at the time, for some reason, we chose to continue tithing what we had been when we had the job. There were times where I was like, “Well, this check’s going to bounce,” and something would happen. Something unexpected would come, some refund or some gift or something. 

I only say that because I want to underscore that God is trustworthy and he showed that to me and Audrey that he took care of us when we didn’t have and I didn’t know how it was going to come. So I think if you’re grasping super tight, listen to what Matthew says, “Lay up treasures in heaven, serve God first and seek his kingdom,” and then the rest, everything that you need, including him will come in more abundance.

Kent: Yeah. Yeah. You know what’s interesting, Lawson? When you guys were giving even in the middle, and by the way, if someone out there really wants to put this to the test, feel free to go to manhoodjourney.org/donate. That’s manhood-

Lawson: I saw your eyes. I saw your eyes brighten up. I saw that sparkle. 

Kent: That’s manhoodjourney.org/donate. You can even give stock these days. Even though your stock is worth less than it was a month ago, feel free to give us some-

Lawson: Now is the time to give it away when it doesn’t-

Kent: … shares of your stock, but no, kidding aside. We have noticed. I’ll tell a story and I want you to react to that story because you’ve been in the same position. A couple of Decembers ago, nonprofits, we tend to work on calendar years and a lot of folks want to give late December because they want to get the tax deduction in for that year. So a lot of nonprofits have really aggressive end of the year campaigns. 

We’ve been so small and we’ve had so many irons in the fire that I really haven’t done that. Until last year, actually, my first year of about 11 years worth of Manhood Journey, for the very first time, we tried an end of the year campaign in 2021, but in 2020, back a year and a half ago, at the end of 2020, I was in my basement standing right where I am now almost, and my son comes down and says, “Hey, dad. Somebody’s here to see you.”

I go upstairs. There’s a friend of mine in the driveway who I don’t see very often, him and his wife and their kids. They chatted up for a minute and hand me an envelope and drive off. It was real brief. They’re like, “Hey, man. We just got something we want to drop off. There’s a little something for you there and your ministry in the envelope.” He wanted to get it in under the wire. It was literally December 31st. 

I walk in the house and I’m just kind of opening the envelope while I’m talking to my wife and she goes, “Hey, who was that?” and I tell her the name. 

She goes, “What were they doing?” 

I said, “They were dropping off I think it’s a check for Manhood Journey.” 

“Oh, great.”

So I’m opening up the envelope and I pull it out and I almost stopped breathing for a second. My wife looks at me and goes, “What is it?” 

I went, “Oh, well, it’s a check. It’s a check.” 

She goes, “Is it a large check?” 

I went, “You could say that.” 

Bro, it was a check for $40,000, 40,000.00. I’m looking at the check going, “Blink, blink, blink.” There’s no way my eyes are seeing this number because for us, I mean, by a large margin, that was the largest one-time donation from a private individual we have ever gotten. I just remember, I went to lunch with this guy a couple weeks later and he was almost giddy. He was a school kid. He had so much fun. He had sold a business and had a couple big checks that he wanted to give to just a couple nonprofits, and he had so much fun giving that money away. 

Like you talk about, a grateful, happy individual, he was over the moon having given the money away. It was just amazing watching that happen, but you’ve done that, man. Most of our listeners don’t know this, but you’re probably our longest monthly giver in the history of Manhood Journey. You’ve always been personally very generous with our ministry, plus, probably many others. I know you’ve supported the military and guys who’ve had some PTSD issues and so forth. 

What is it about giving that you have personally found to be the antidote to discontentment? How have you seen giving work in your life because you’ve been on that generous side hundreds and hundreds of times, and a lot of our guys need to know that that there really is such thing as a cheerful giver and you’re one of them. What have you found in that space, man?

Lawson: Well, it happened to me a couple of times in our life where we were without, and God used those times in our lives to show me what generosity looks like by having other people do that for us. In those times, I committed to him that if I were ever in a place where it was ours to give, then I was going to do that because it’s not ours. It’s ours to give. I see where you had made a note, Proverbs 11:25, “A generous soul will prosper, and he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed.” That’s just fact. 

Your story about Paul and your story about the guy that dropped the 40 grand check and people who just can’t wait to do that and to see that effect of giving like that, it’s not because they, I hope it’s not, and I don’t think it is in their case, I think it’s because they realized God gave them something on loan that they get to then go use for his good, and that refreshment, that feeling of being blessed through generosity is something I think that God gives you. It’s not earthborn. 

So as you were talking about that, generosity and gratitude, generosity is the friend of gratitude. If the enemy is discontentment, then generosity is the friend.

Kent: Nice. Good word, man. That’s a really good word. Let me wrap with a concept and then you can comment on it, Lawson. In the New Testament, we see this word. It’s translated a little differently depending on your English, but it’s the Greek word Eucharistia or the Eucharisteo, and you’ll hear the word in it. You’ll hear the word Eucharist, so the body of Christ. That’s given. You hear that a lot in a Catholic tradition where you’ll hear the word Eucharist used for … Oh, my word! I almost said confession. Every weekend, we take it. It’s blood, and what’s the phrase for when you take-

Lawson: Communion? 

Kent: Communion. Goodness gracious, man. My brain went completely numb for a second. 

Lawson: I thought you were joking.

Kent: No, no. I was grasping for what the word communion meant. So you’ll see the word Eucharist in there, but you’ll also see the Greek word for the word grace is the word charis, C-H-A-R-I-S, and that’s right in the middle of that word, and that word means thankfulness or gratitude.

So when you look at the Greek in that, what you’re seeing is you’re seeing God’s gift to us, God’s gift to us of grace is the central thing that enables us to be thankful and to be grateful. So if you’re not thankful for money or your wife or your kids or your job or anything else, and we’re going to talk about several other enemies of gratitude in the coming weeks, maybe deep down we haven’t fully embraced how thankful we are for the grace of God at the core, core level.

Part of our discontentment is maybe we’re not quite thankful for the actual grace of God in all of its various forms. One of the verses where that word is used in the New Testament is in Colossians 2:6, and it really hammers this point home directly. It says, “Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, the free gift, so walk in him, rooted and built up in him and established in the faith just as you were taught,” and then it kicks off with this at the end, “abounding in thanksgiving,” Eucharistia Eucharisteo, abounding in gratitude. 

Christians should be some of the most grateful people on the planet because of the gift we’ve been given in Jesus, and to your point, the biggest friend of this kind of gratitude is usually generosity. Are we giving that away and are we, not just money, but time and energy and connections and expertise, are we giving that away in a way where God’s love is flowing through us and to other people? When we’re doing that, man, we are grateful, grateful people. Lawson, land the plane, buddy.

Lawson: Yeah. On the heels of that within Colossians, it goes on to say, “For all things are for your sakes,” but here’s the so that, “so that grace having spread to more and more people will cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.” Overflowing thanksgiving from person to person can be the result of we as Christians being thankful, gracious, and generous. So guys, hope this has been as good for you as it has been for me. Kent, it’s good to see you, dude, and I will talk to you next week.

Kent: Hey, dad. Thank you for listening to today’s show. If you found this episode helpful, remember you can get all the content and show notes at manhoodjourney.org/podcast, and if you really liked it, please consider doing three things. Number one, share this podcast with someone. You can hit the share button in your app, wherever you listen to podcast or just call a person up, tell them to listen at it. Number two, subscribe to this podcast so you get episodes automatically. That helps us as well to help dads find the show. You can do that through your favorite listening app, whatever that is. 

Finally, review this podcast. Leave us a review, good or bad, wherever you listen. Those reviews also help other dads find the show. You can always learn more about what we’re up to at manhoodjourney.org or fatheronpurpose.org. We will see you next week.

Outro: You’ve been dozing off to the Father on Purpose podcast, featuring Kent Evans and Lawson Brown. Now, wake up. Head over to fatheronpurpose.org for more tools that can help you be a godly, intentional, and not completely horrible dad. Remember, you are not a father on accident, so go be a father on purpose.