Dr. Ken Blanchard on how dads can overcome mistakes and lead faithfully

Show Transcripts:

Intro: Welcome to The Father On Purpose Podcast, featuring author and ministry leader, Kent Evans, and business executive and military veteran Lawson Brown. This is a show for you, dad. You want to be a godly and intentional father? Unfortunately, you’ve turned to these two knuckleheads for help. Let us know how that works out for you. Before we begin, remember this, you are not a father on accident, so go be a father on purpose. Please welcome your hosts, Kent and Lawson.

Kent Evans: Everybody Kent Evans here, and Lawson, and I are going to give you the occasional gift we give you. And that is, you don’t have to listen to us for the length of this podcast. So, you’re welcome. You are welcome. In fact, we’re joined by a guy who I got to be honest. I’m going to have a little trouble introducing this guy. So I’m going to take this short route because my goodness, the introduction could take the whole 45 minutes.

Dr. Ken Blanchard is on the call today. And Ken has joined us for two reasons. One is, he wrote this amazing book, that’s been turned into a movie, which we’re going to talk about on the podcast a bit. But also Ken’s got some experience as a father himself, and we want to talk to him about that as well. Now, if you’ve not heard Ken Blanchard, first let me ask you, where you been? Where have you been living? Years ago Ken, the first time I saw you live was at a Lead Like Jesus seminar at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky. You had a star studied cast. I think John Gordon was with you. I think Pat Lencioni was with you. What a great event.

And Ken has been an author, a business consultant, a leader for many decades. He’s spoken to probably millions of people, been married a very long time, which he’ll talk about in a moment he’s published 60 or more books. Most of them co-authored. You probably have heard of The One Minute Manager, Raving Fans, Gung Ho! He’s currently the chief spiritual officer of the company he founded some 40 plus years ago in San Diego. He and his wife Marjorie started, The Ken Blanchard Companies. And so Ken, thank you so much for spending some time with us today and speaking into the life of the dads who listen to our podcast. We really appreciate it.

Dr. Ken Blancha…: Well, it’s my pleasure. And I don’t think there’s anything more important than dads. And if you look at talking to the young people that have problems, a lot of it is that they don’t know their dads, and their dads have disappeared, either through work or just not being there. So wow, those dads listening, you’re playing a very important role.

Kent Evans: So true. Lawson, what do we have for Ken to get us kicked off?

Lawson Brown: Yeah, thank you for saying that, Ken, we feel the same way. And always as we’re doing this, we imagine a father driving or walking, taking a jog, listening to us. And a main goal of ours is to encourage them that they are super critical in their family, and that they need each other. And so, we encourage dads to listen to people who have done it before, and then also get together themselves. There’s another podcast that I really like, and I’ve listened to for years. It’s called How I Built This, by a guy named Guy Raz. And in that podcast, they break down companies that we’ve all heard of. And I want to ask you particularly about The Mulligan because a lot of times, How I Built This, they start with the origin story.

How did that company even come to mind in someone’s brain originally? And so for The Mulligan in particular, I’d love to hear from you two things. Where did the origin of this become real to you? And then with our audience in mind, can you tie it back… The story of the Mulligan, can you tie it back to yourself and your own family, maybe as a young dad or now as a man who has a large, and growing family, in your role as you are today in your own family?

Dr. Ken Blancha…: Well, I tell you, I learned about the concept about 20 years ago when I first met Wally Armstrong. And Wally was a great professional golfer, and he’s now a great teacher, but his first time at the Masters, which was just recently, he was eight under par after four rounds and heed the record for the lowest score for a first timer. And he started The Mulligan Golf Club, and I met him at a golf outing and I said, “Mulligan Golf Club. What’s that all about?” He said, “Oh, it’s all about teaching young people about Jesus, because Jesus is the greatest Mulligan of all time, because any of you know anything about golf, if you had a lousy shot on the first tee, they’ll say, why don’t you take a Mulligan?” And it’s named after a guy in Scotland years ago. And that means you got a second chance.

And he said, “Who gives a second chance is more than Jesus?” And I went, “Wow, we need to write a book about that.” And so I went to Callaway Gardens for about two or three days with him and talked. And then I went back to California and I got busy and all. We have a golf outing of Christian guys and the [inaudible 00:05:24] called and said, “Ken, you got any new books that I could send out to people?” I said, “Yeah I got this book, the Mulligan.” He said, “Well, I need it in two weeks. Can you get it to me?” And I hadn’t written anything. So I said, God, this is up to you, and I wrote the book in two weeks. It was unbelievable. And it’s been out there and been translated in all kinds of languages.

And then this great film guy, Rick Eldridge read a copy. And he said, my God, we need to make a movie out of this, and Pat Boone is the star. And it’s a story of really typical guy, and you fathers watch this, is where he’s so into his work that he forgets about his family. And so he is been separated from his wife for five years, hasn’t talked to his son in a couple of years, and it’s work, work, work, work. And he goes to a Pro-Am in order to meet a Chinese executive, that they want to do business with him. They give him Tom Lehman as his pro, and Tom’s a great believer. And in the middle of the round, he misses a short putt for a birdie that would’ve given his team an Eagle, and he breaks his putter over his knee and throws it into the sand trap, and he’s walking towards the 10th tee and Lehman’s waiting for him.

And he says to him, “Paul, we haven’t talked much this nine, but…” He said, “…to be honest with you’re not that good to be that mad.” Great line. And he said, “I found that golf and life are a lot alike.” And boy, I found that because you know, in golf, you get good breaks you don’t deserve. You get good breaks, you do deserve. You get bad breaks, you don’t deserve. You get bad breaks, you do deserve. Sometimes you’re playing better than you should, and you got to deal with success. Sometimes you’re playing worse and you should, and you got to deal… all in four hours. And golf spells Game Of Life First, if you really spelled it out. And so it’s really is interesting. And Lehman says that “What I need to have you do, because I know your life is goofed up, because I’ve seen what you’re doing with your golf game,” is as an old pro, we call him the old pro. Sits up on the porch, and he is in his nineties, but he is sharpest attack.

Go see him. You straighten out your golf and your life. And that part is played by Pat Boone. And Pat Boone is so excited. He’s 87 years old, a wonderful believer, and just so excited about being part of this film, and all the stars are. In fact, we had the official launch of The Mulligan movie on Tuesday night in Augusta, Georgia, the week of the Masters and had a huge crowd, and the whole cast was there. And I zoomed in from California. I’m not traveling too much as I’m just a kid of 62 second anniversary of my 21st birthday, and I got to talk to Pat Boone and all. And they just loved it, and it just is amazing to see the impact that this film has had on people who were in it. And it’s going to be in theaters all over the country today and tomorrow.

Lawson Brown: That is super cool. I love that you guys opened it like that. At the week of the Masters. I mean, how perfect is that?

Kent Evans: Well, and Ken, there’s probably… We deal with a lot of dads, and the dads who listen to our podcast send us a lot of mail about their life challenges. And I’d like to take you back to that 62nd anniversary ago, back when you were a young business guy and you were… You probably had a lot of demands on your time. You had places you could be, you had people you could speak to, you had books, you could write or famous people to go network with. How did you balance the work of a professional business guy and being a husband and a dad and eventually a grandfather? How did you balance that stuff? Because we hear from dads all the time and that’s really what… One of the main characters in the movie is really struggling with that. Do I go become just a total success as a CEO, and a failure as a dad? Or what’s that tension like? And what was that like in your own life as you kind of?

Dr. Ken Blancha…: Well, when our kids were growing up, I was traveling a lot, and I also started our company with my wife, Marjorie, who has a PhD in communication, but one of the things we decided is I would call home every night and talk to the kids. I talk to our son and our daughter and ask him about their day, and talk and all. And so when I got home on a weekend, I didn’t have to catch up completely and all, because they always would know. And then, when you’ve eventually started to be able to look at each other on TV, and other stuff, we could see each other. And so it was a constant… And when I came home, I left my work in the car and I just focused on the family.

And if I had work to do, I’d wait till they went to bed, and you just have to make some priorities. But I had a wife, Marjorie, if I got carried away, she’d say, “Ken”, she will wheel me back in and all. But it’s not easy, but it’s so important. I mean, what’s more important than being a father? Mothers are pretty darn important too, but you have a chance to really mold somebody. My father was a retired as an Admiral in the Navy, and he was an amazing guy and he was gone from when I was, probably one year old till I was almost five years old and all, but he wrote his letters and did all kinds of things. He couldn’t call in those days, and all, but got a picture of me saluting him at the railroad station coming in.

But he was just amazing. I remember I won the president of seventh grade in [inaudible 00:11:39] New York and I came home, and I’m all pumped up. And my dad says, “Congratulations, Ken, but now that you’re president, your leadership training begins because never use your position. Great leaders are great, not because they have power, but because people respect and trust them.” He said, “It’s a myth in the military. It’s my way of the highway.” He said, “Sure. In battle, somebody has to call the shots. But if you act like a big deal over your men, they will shoot you before the enemy.” And so he was just always there for me.

And my mother was a great philosopher. She would say to me, “Ken, don’t you act like you’re better than anybody else, but don’t you let anybody else act like they’re better than you. God didn’t make any junk. There’s a pearl of goodness in everybody. Dig for it.” And so I’ve been a Digger for a long time, but I mean the role of you as a father with your kids, they look up to you, they need you, they want your advice and all, and don’t abdicate it. If you travel, get on the phone, keep in communication, how did your day go? Any issues you want to talk about? Just be there for them.

Kent Evans: And you mind telling us a little bit Ken, about your family. How many kids? How many grandkids?

Dr. Ken Blancha…: I have two kids and five grandkids. And so it’s really fun. We haven’t got any great grandkids yet. We’re hoping for that. But coming in June, Marjorie and I will be married 60 years. I mean, that’s a few-

Lawson Brown: Good for you.

Dr. Ken Blancha…: For few years, but I married way above myself.

Lawson Brown: That’s awesome. Congratulations.

Dr. Ken Blancha…: My dad said “The key to a successful marriage, Ken is to say, yes ma’am.”

Kent Evans: Ken, we had Bob Russell, who I know is a long time friend of yours on the podcast. And he actually did our wedding back in the day when April and I got married, and he quipped, he said, “Kent, I know that getting into heaven is based on faith alone. But if it were based on works, God would say April, come on in.”

Dr. Ken Blancha…: That’s right.

Kent Evans: Hey dad, do you wrestle with anger? Man I sure have. And so have thousands of other dads in our email list. And so what we did for those dads and for you, we built a special digital course called The Anger Free Dad. This digital course is chock-full of almost 50 assets, a bunch of teaching videos, a ton of PDF booklets and worksheets. So you can walk through and understand your anger triggers, the expectations underneath and how to pull those out of your heart and mind, so you can be a dad who is less angry and more at peace. If you take this course and you do not become less angry, you will get all of your money back, plus we’ll send you some boxing gloves so you can beat up the wall at your house with all of your mad anger. Dad, come take the Anger Free Dad course today at manhoodjourney.org/anger-free-dad. That’s manhoodjourney.org/anger-free-dad.

Lawson Brown: Ken you said something that about the military. I was a Marine corps officer for a while and it is a myth about people running around yelling and barking orders and that, that defines leadership. Servant leadership came along early in my career. I believe that your book, The Servant Leader was kind of where things began to tip in that direction way back then. So, that’s become something of a principle in my era of business leadership. How do you feel that, that applies as a father versus a business leader?

Dr. Ken Blancha…: Well, I tell you when I talked to people initially about servant leadership, they often think I’m talking about the inmates running the prison or trying to please everybody or some religious movement. They don’t realize that there’s two parts of servant leadership. And one of the part is about vision, direction, values, and goals. And one of the things that you want to do as a father with your mate and all is say, “What’s our mission statement? What business are we in as a family? If we do a good job, what will we accomplish? What are the values that should drive our behavior? Then what are the goals that we have and all?” And my son Scott speaks now, he’s 57 years old, but he would talk when he was young, and he would get in trouble. He said, he wished he was treated like his friends, sent to his room or spanked. But no, he had to come down to the dining room table and talk to his mother, and his father, and his sister about how about his behavior was inconsistent with our family values.

Kent Evans: Oh that’s great. That’s fantastic.

Dr. Ken Blancha…: But I think it’s really important. So that’s the leadership part, because leadership’s about going somewhere and then once that’s there, then you turn the pyramid upside down and now you’re working for your kids. What can I do to help you win? What can I help you accomplish your goals? What do I help you in terms of what do you want to do? In terms of college or not college, and how can I be there for you? And boy, what an important mentoring role that you get a chance to play. And it doesn’t work from a delegation, leave alone style. It only works when you stay in contact with your kids.

Kent Evans: Yeah. And a lot of dads, I think struggle with this idea of letting their kids go the direction they should go. They want to create some carbon copies of themselves. And I would guess, you had a really successful business career, had a really successful author career. I think a temptation would’ve been for your children to say, I want to be just like my dad and do the exact same things my dad did. How’d you encourage your kids in their own unique giftedness or wiring? So they didn’t just try to become a Ken Blanchard carbon copy.

Dr. Ken Blancha…: Well, I think you could constantly asking them, what do you really like to do? What’s fun for you and all that? So like our son Scott, he went to the hotel school at Cornell. He got really interested in hospitality because he got a job working in a kitchen, dish washing and stuff like that. And then our daughter, she got interested in the whole area of communication and all. And she started to work with a company and in that area. And so we encouraged them to do what they want. And then finally it was interesting when they were both would speak 25 years ago. They looked at what Marjorie and I were doing with our company. And they said, gee, that doesn’t look that bad. Do you mind if we join?

And we started them in low level jobs, as well as Margie’s brother who was born when she was a freshman at Cornell. So he’s 18 years younger than she. And now, at our ripe old age, Scott’s the president, our daughter Debbie runs the marketing department. Her brother, Tom is the CEO. And Scott’s wife, Madeline run our coaching business. And so it’s really a family run business, but we got 250 people. So it’s in an office in London, and the presence in the far east. And so it’s just been fun to see how it is. But Peter Drucker told me years ago, “Ken, nothing good happens by accident.” And fathers remember this. Put some structure on it. And so Scott had heard that too, and I worked at a company where they had a consultant work with the family once a quarter for a whole day, everything.

And so we started meeting as a family with an outside consultant for now 25 years. And nobody’s ever missed a meeting. We meet once a quarter for a whole day with an outside consultant. And if anybody’s got an issue… Because we didn’t want the family to goof the business up and we didn’t want the business to goof the family up. But the other thing is have family meetings, it’s really important. Why not meet once every two weeks of the family and say, how are we doing as a family? Is there anything we ought to be doing differently? And how can mom and I help and all? What can you do to help us? And communicate, communicate, communicate.

Kent Evans: One of the themes in the book, Ken, as well as the movie obviously is this theme of second chances. A lot of dads tell me and Lawson that they feel like they’ve blown it. They feel like they’ve made a mess. Such a mess of their marriage, their family, their finances, you name it. And they start to disqualify themselves from the game of fatherhood. They feel like they, since they missed that one shot, they’re just going to go sit down because they’re pulling themselves out of the game. What would you say to that dad, if he were sitting across the desk from you?

Dr. Ken Blancha…: I would say that some of the most valuable learning comes from your mistakes. And if you think you’re not going to make any mistakes in life, you lie about other things too. And that what you really need to do with your kids is be honest with them, and say I was just been thinking about what we’ve been doing and boy, I don’t think I’ve been the best father. And I’d really like to see if we could start again. Give me a Mulligan, and what could we do? And same way with your kids. They’re going to do things that disappoint you, and you might want to say let’s talk because I think maybe you need a Mulligan.

The Mulligan philosophy is such a great one. That’s why we think families ought to go see this film together, and realize the power of forgiving yourself as well as forgiving other people, and having a second chance. But the big deal is having the Lord as your partner. I tell you, when I finally got the Lord on my side, what an amazing thing, because I don’t feel like I have to face anything by myself because I got Marjorie and the Lord between the two of them, I’m pretty well covered.

Lawson Brown: Ah, that’s very, very good to hear. Wow. I’ve wrote down two. I mean a lot of dads have maybe had some pretty big mistakes, and when you said you’re not that good to be that mad about breaking the putter over his knee, that applies as fathers too. You may have messed up a lot of times and maybe even with the same thing repeatedly, but getting mad and breaking your putter over your knee does nothing to help that situation.

Dr. Ken Blancha…: That’s right.

Lawson Brown: You’ve got to receive forgiveness and keep at it. Keep trying to improve.

Dr. Ken Blancha…: Yeah. And I’ve met so many people and I ask them about their fathers and I said, “Well, I haven’t talked to them for years.” And I said, “Well, have you thought about reaching out to your dad and say, dad I know we missed the boat somehow, but is there a way we could get back together?” So it’s a two-way street, so it’s not just you coming, but sometimes you might reach back to your father and say, “Hey, I’d love to connect up with you again.”

Kent Evans: One of the key guys in the film, in the book is this hard charging business CEO, Paul McAllister, who is, I think it’s fair to say, winning at work and losing it home. He has trouble in the marriage, he has trouble with his son. And my email inbox is I don’t say full, but a frequent receiver of emails that sound a lot like that. I’ve got guys who email me, and that they’re really competent at work. They’re successful, they’re effective in their jobs, but they feel like failures at home, and they feel like they just don’t have any ability to be. And it may be because they didn’t have a dad themselves or whatever. Long list of reasons.

What do we say to that guy? Who’s at that fork in the road mentally where he thinks, you know what I’m going to do? I’m just going to double down on work and I’m going to go ahead and make my money, run my companies. And I just can’t get this family thing right. So I’m going to go, go where I can win, and they’re just going to gravitate toward the job. What do we say to a guy? Because we’ve got some guys listening to the podcast who are right on that ledge and they’re about to make that choice.

Dr. Ken Blancha…: Yeah. Well, to me, life is all about relationships. It’s about who you love and who loves you. And to turn your back on the important relationships in your life, and focus it on work is a major mistake. God gave us the opportunity to work, but he didn’t want us to get carried away with it. And so that you just need to evaluate that and how do you put it into balance? And sometimes, you’re going to have to work pretty hard, and you say to your family, the next month it’s going to be a little crazy and I need your support, but stay in touch with them in the phone or a podcast or not podcast, but Zoom, stuff like that, because today there’s so many more ways to stay into communication than when our kids were growing up. And now it’s just fabulous what you can do with Zoom and all those kind of things.

Kent Evans: How much did you learn about fatherhood from your own dad?

Dr. Ken Blancha…: I learned a lot, just watching him and how important it was to him, because every two years he would be… He didn’t want us moving all over the world because he saw a lot of kids that they would just get used to a place, and then they’d go. So we grew up in [inaudible 00:26:24], and every two years he would be assigned assignment outside of there, but he’d always try to get something in New York or Norfolk, so he could commute on weekends. But during the week he always staying on touch on the phone, and all that kind of thing. Because he really thought his role as a father was important, and he didn’t want to jeopardize that. And if he worked with a guy that got upset, because he left on early on Friday and didn’t get back maybe till Monday morning, then he’d say he got the wrong guy, maybe I ought to go work for somebody else.

Kent Evans: I want to ask you a question Ken about Lead Like Jesus. I know that’s one of the things that you have pioneered and I’d love for you to kind of, if you could take just a moment, and talk about a couple of the principles you see in the life of Jesus Christ that are leadership principles, and how those might apply to dads leading their homes. A minute ago you talked about dad doing a family meeting, and I think man, that’s brilliant. Guys do meetings all the time and they’re great at them. So go ahead and take that meeting on home and do one every couple of weeks for your family. What are some leadership principles?

Dr. Ken Blancha…: Well, it’s interesting. I had somewhat ad drifted away from my faith because I saw a lot of hypocrisy in the churches and all. And when The One Minute Manager came out, I got a call to be on the Hour of Power of Robert Schuller. And on the Hour of Power, he say “Ken I love The One Minute Manager, but you know who is the greatest one minute manager of all time?” I said, “Who is that?” He said, “Jesus.” I said “Really?” He said, “Yeah he was really clear on goals. Isn’t that your first secret? One minute goal setting. So make sure you set really clear goals with your family.” And he said, “You and Tom Peters, didn’t invent management by wandering around. Jesus did. He wandered from one little village for another village, anybody showed any interest, He praised Him, heal them, and isn’t that your second secret? One minute praising.” Yeah, and he said, “And if people stepped out of line, He wasn’t afraid to give one minute reprimand.

He threw the money lenders out of the temple. Isn’t that your third secret?” Yeah. And so off of that, I started to go to read the gospels, and I just laughed because everything I had ever taught about leadership. Jesus did with these 12 incompetent guys He’d hired. You wouldn’t hire that lot. And then I get a call, would I write a book with Norman Vincent Peale? And I said, “Is he still alive?” Because my parents had gone to his church before I was born, and he just had a tremendous impact on me. And then I met Bob Buford, who started Halftime, and he turned me over to Bill Hybels, who was heading up Willow Creek Community Church at the time. And it was just amazing, the impact they all had. And then I realized, wow, I got this teammate with God through His Son, and why wouldn’t I want a teammate like that? And it just changed my life and it changed my wife’s life too, because we both gave ourselves over to the Lord, and it’s made all the difference.

Kent Evans: How important has a godly wife been in the process of both being a successful business guy, but also being an effective father and grandfather?

Dr. Ken Blancha…: Well, I think because we’re coming from the same place, a lot of times in a couple, one will be a believer in the other one isn’t. And I think it’s worth sitting down and looking at that and saying, what could we do to get each other on the same team? And because it really helps when Marjorie and I were sitting at the Easter service yesterday, holding each other’s hands and we’re going to be marriage 60 years in June. Just saying, thank Lord, thank you, Lord. You gave your life for us and what an amazing thing.

Lawson Brown: You’ve done a lot of great for a lot of people. For us as dads, what your life has represented, Ken, I love hearing the story that you became a little pulled away from “church” and then got brought back around by these great men. And I just want to tell you are one of the men that brought me around personally, and I really have always valued what you’ve taught, and what’s what I’ve gotten out of your book. So thank you very much. Is there any last thing that you’d like to say to our audience, Ken?

Dr. Ken Blancha…: It’s really interesting with Lead Like Jesus, we’re now in almost 30 nations and everybody around the world loves Jesus. They don’t particularly like Christians. And I was on a radio show recently. They say, we understand you’re a man of faith. What’s your religion? I sent him a follower of Jesus. They say, “Oh, you’re a Christian?” I said, “No, I’m not. And neither was Jesus.” A lot of people don’t know Christianity is never mentioned in the Gospels. And it’s mentioned three times in Acts, and it’s negative. “Those damn Christians” And Jesus didn’t come here to start a religion, He came here to build a relationship. And He said two things that if we all would get out of arguing about who’s got the best version of Christianity. And He said, “You will be known as my disciples by how you love each other.”

And then he said, “Judge not, or you shall be judged.” Duh. I wanted to call this recent book. I have a recent book, came out called Simple Truths of Leadership, and I wanted to call it Duh! Why isn’t Common Sense Common Practice? Because I think it is crazy that it’s not. And so, duh, Jesus is there for us, to take care of our mistakes, give us a Mulligan, a second chance, and take it, and go back and redo some relationships. And start again. You got another chance with the good Lord on your side.

Lawson Brown: Amen. Love it.

Kent Evans: Hey dads, listen, you just heard from one of the living legends of communication, business leadership, faith. I hope it has blessed you like it’s blessed me and Lawson. And what an honor to have you on today Ken. Guys, listen. Go get the One Minute Manager. If you want to lead like Jesus, grab that book and learn the one minute goal setting, the one minute praise, the one minute redirection. Learn those principles because I use them all the time in my family, Ken, all the time. I’m a father of five boys and one daughter-in-law. I use them all the time. And then if you have a minute, go check out the movie, The Mulligan movie. It’s fantastic. I got to be an early screener. I got to watch the movie, and it is a great story. Good for the whole family. Pat Boone’s rolling. It’s hilarious. There’s a couple moments. The scene where he says “I haven’t driven since I had my license, back when I had my license.”

Dr. Ken Blancha…: 20 years, yeah.

Kent Evans: Any closing thoughts, Ken, before we bid you adieu, and thank you very much for being on today.

Dr. Ken Blancha…: Well, my big closing thoughts is why go through life trying to figure out everything by yourself? You got a partner. Quiet yourself and ask your partner who loves you unconditionally, what He recommends for you to do, and then listen. And a friend of mine said, you can always tell when God’s talking to you, because you’ll think of something you never would’ve thought of yourself. So shut your mouth. So often when people pray, they do all the talking, to sort of say, I got this issue, Lord, what do you think? And keep quiet and listen, and you’ll be amazed at the data that will come. But remember your role as a Father is just so important, and what did Jesus constantly look to? He looked to His Father, and He said, “It’s not my choice, but yours, thy will be done.” And had that great relationship with His Father.

Kent Evans: Ken, thank you so much. That’s Dr. Ken Blanchard, everybody. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll catch you guys next week.

Hey dad, thank you for listening to today’s show. If you found this episode helpful, remember, you can get all the content and show notes at manhoodjourney.org/podcast. And if you really liked it, please consider doing three things. Number one, share this podcast with someone. You can hit the share button in your app, wherever you listen to podcast, or just call the person up and tell them to listen in. Number two, subscribe to this podcast so you get episodes automatically. That helps us as well to help dads find the show. You can do that through your favorite listening app, whatever that is. And finally review this podcast, leave us a review, good or bad wherever you listen. Those reviews also help other dads find the show. You can always learn more about what we’re up to at manhoodjourney.org or fatheronpurpose.org. We will see you next week.

Outro: You’ve been dozing off to The Father on Purpose podcast, featuring Kent Evans and Lawson Brown. Now, wake up head over to fatheronpurpose.org for more tools that can help you be a godly, intentional, and not completely horrible dad. Remember you are not a father on accident, so go be a father on purpose.